As for Palin’s stance on civil unions, it’s hard for me to find anywhere where she’s either supported or not supported the issue since she’s started her run as VP. I did hear about her stance on the subject when she was running for governor of Alaska in 2006 when she admitted that she’d support a state ballot denying homosexual couples getting the same benefits as married heterosexual couples (source).

Elected officials can’t defy the court when it comes to how rights are applied, she said, but she would support a ballot question that would deny benefits to homosexual couples.

“I believe that honoring the family structure is that important,” Palin said.

Most conservatives are of the opinion that “marriage” is a religious term, defined by the bible, and therefore you can only be “married” by a religious official in a church. But! Ben and I were married by a judge, in an office, in a ceremony completely void of any religious reference. So, how come the conservatives aren’t all up in arms over the fact that Ben and I are “married”? The only conclusion I can come up with is that we aren’t gay. So to me, what it all boils down to in the end is that it’s blatant discrimination and, like Tree said, a gross overstep of the state/church separation.

It does bother me that Obama/Biden don’t fully support gay marriage but at least they support federally recognized civil unions which I think is a step in the right direction and neither of them support something as outlandish as changing the federal constitution which is what originally shocked me to hear about Palin.

That combined with her stance that ALL abortion should be illegal is what sent me over the Palin Hatin’ edge. Late term abortion as birth control (or ANY abortion as birth control, in my opinion) is wrong BUT, at least in terms of non-late term abortions, should be the choice of the woman. Denying a minor from aborting a pregnancy caused by insest or rape is just a horrible thought to me and stepping way over the line of what should be a personal right.

I know these are things that we don’t tend to agree on, Eu, but I get scared when I see somebody who thinks so nonchalantly about taking away what I think are basic rights we all deserve.

“…that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

I didn’t see any asterisks in there for Gay people.

Btw, Anna and I were discussing an interesting point on the way to work this morning:

For Biden and also separately for Obama:
“Are they saying they DON’T believe in support of Gay Marriage on a federal level because they really don’t? or because it’s what they have to say to get elected?”

Meaning, is it the belief of the general populous that to run for president, you can’t support gay marriage? Or do they truly believe it is a state level issue, and it should stay that way?

(Anyway, just food for thought)

…..unless you’re gay? then, …nevermind? you don’t deserve to have that right.

Its’ not jsut about benefits. It’s about being able being about to legally get married, to be able to truly have an official wedding with the 100% equal recognition that a heterosexual couple gets, … and share the rest of your life together regardless of sexual orientation, color of your six, etc…..not just benefits.

Julie, my comments about happiness specifically had to do with removing the rights of others.

This is why I am fundamentally opposed to Palin and her campaign (not because of her wardrome dollars, or the way she speaks, or any of those other ideas). And, the idea that she could end up leading the country is never something I could support.

The primary point in my post was to highlight Biden’s direct quote that he & his running mate do not believe the government (civil) should redefine marriage, that is, traditional marriage as it was recognized in 50 states up until 4 years ago 49 and now 48.

So if that is the fundamental reason you dislike Palin, how does that affect your feelings towards the others running for office?

As a sidenote, California already had a law on the books that provided registered domestic partners the same benefits as married couples, California Family Code 297

I’ve seen too many folks throw it away when it IS a man and a woman. SHould a man and a woman never be allowed to get married again to anyone if they can’t stay together forever? Just food for thought.

btw, totally agree:
“The idea of marriage is something that is given power by the feelings that you have for it and not by the state or nation that governs you. Too many people have forgotten there is supposed to be separation between church and state.”

Along those lines, Marriage should be about a commitment between two people, and about Love, about wanting to share the rest of your life together. ANd if two people want to do that, and they’re gay? Who I am to stop them? Am I here to judge them? to stop them? Because I have a better sense of marriage then them? Because I know what’s right for them? more than THEY do?

…No. They know what’s best for them. They don’t need me to govern them.

As far as benefits Tree, EVERYONE should have benefits, not just married folks. The question of benefits for the self-employed is a question that plagues anyone who is self-employed. That person, even when self-employed, shoudl have access to all the benefits they need. That they don’t have them or pay massive premiums to get them, is the fault of a poorly implemented government and health care system (in my opinion)

I immediately stopped what i was doing… Anna turned down the volume on the TV, and I think she paused whatever was on TV.

(Ben)”So, What makes you shiver when you think of it?”
(Cassidy)”I don’t know, it..just does… I mean.. I don’t know a lot about it, but… (shiver)….”

(We teach her rights for all, so I have an idea of where this might have come from)

(Ben)”So, Cassidy, This election includes a vote on if people in this state, in California, will have the right to marry, if they are Gay….Would you take that right away from yourself? Is it something that you think only certainly people are qualified to have? One way to think about it is… If you are willing to take the rights away from another group, you damned well better be willing to take them away from you (the group that includes you).”

I went over this in detail with her, since I really wanted her to understand how serious this was. I didn’t touch on the differences between what a Gay couple do in private, and what a heterosexual couple do in private, as honestly, that really has nothing to do with this/that discussion. Not providing rights to marry to a group based on their sexual preference, is an idea, that is, as Anna and I both agree on, as old and antiquated as not providing equal rights to people based on the color of their skin, or their sex. I say, if we can’t afford gay folks the right to marry, women shouldn’t be able to vote anymore, and black folks shouldn’t have rights anymore, I mean.. if we’re going to be as idiotic as that, we might as well roll it all back. There’s no reason to pick and choose how narrow-minded we are, we might as well just be even-handedly narrow-minded.

I am not gay. I am not Black. I am not a woman, but I believe in equal rights for all of those groups… why? Because it’s the right thing to do. There will indeed come a time when we will look back, and wonder…WTF were we (some of us) thinking… I mean, everyone deserves equal treatment under the law, …not just some of us. We can’t exclude marriage (because a few folks don’t want it to).

Simple rule here, … live your life so you can be happy, and that your happiness doesn’t remove the happiness of others. Proposition 8 Removes the happiness of others.

This is why I am fundamentally opposed to Palin and her campaign (not because of her wardrome dollars, or the way she speaks, or any of those other ideas). And, the idea that she could end up leading the country is never something I could support.

Finland is very Obama-positive, so I’m hoping he wins.

I don’t see why gay marriage is even an issue. I thought the year was 2008. We are people, we all bleed the same blood. Last time I checked those who are gay do not have rainbow blood, or an extra limb. Even those who are born with birth defects are treated kinder than someone who is gay in many states from what I have read …. Love is Love, why stop someone from expressing their love by being allowed to Marry someone of the same sex? If the high and might Christians are uptight about the traditions of marriage, perhaps they really need to question who they are. I’m sure many of them are closest gays, or in denial that someone close that they love is actually gay.

Teehee.

I actually plan to respond but we have stuffs to go do. I just wanted to make sure that any regular reader understand that Eu is, like, one of my most favorite people in the whole world and I still love her to death even though she’s on The Dark Side and that attacking her for her opinion won’t fly.

Only I’m allowed to do that.

Flash backs to BSR/Bakersfield BS political debate just flew through my head.